News :: GLBT
How extreme is Rick Warren?
Thursday Dec 25, 2008
The mainstream media is painting evangelical Pastor Rick Warren as a moderate religious voice -- news reports have continually cited his AIDS activism in Africa as proof-- in its ongoing coverage of the LGBT community’s anger over his selection by Barack Obama to deliver the inaugural invocation on Jan. 20. But Warren’s viewpoints on a range of issues, from LGBT rights to whether Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad should be assassinated and what awaits Jews in the afterlife are hardly middle of the road.
Add to his extremism a dose of disingenuousness: In a 2005 Boston Globe interview titled, "Pastor rivets many without politics" Warren is quoted as saying, ’’I’m not trying to legislate change. If I thought that legislation could change the culture, I’d become a politician. But I don’t believe it can." Of course, Warren was singing a decidedly different tune when he cut an ad in the run-up to the November election urging his followers to support California’s Prop. 8. Is this the change in which Barack Obama wants us to believe?
Here, in his own words, is the real Rick Warren.
Beliefnet Rick Warren interview, posted Dec. 15, 2008:
RW: I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.
Beliefnet: Do you think those are equivalent to gays getting married?
RW: Oh, I do.
Follow-up written statement to Beliefnet interview from Rick Warren, posted on Dec. 15:
If anyone, whether unfaithful spouses, or unmarried couples, or homosexuals or anyone else think they are smarter than God and chooses to disobey God’s sexual instructions, it is not the US government’s role to take away their choice. But neither is it the government’s role to classify just any ’loving’ relationship as a marriage. A committed boyfriend-girlfriend relationship is not a marriage. Two lovers living together is a not a marriage. Incest is not marriage. A domestic partnership or even a civil union is still not marriage.
Much of this debate is not really about civil rights, but a desire for approval. The fact that 70 percent of blacks supported Prop 8 shows they don’t believe it is a civil rights issue. Gays in California already have their rights. What they desire is approval and validation from those who disagree with them, and they are willing to force it by law if necessary. Any disapproval is quickly labeled ’hate speech.’ Imagine if we held that standard in every other disagreement Americans have? There would be no free speech. That’s why, on the traditional marriage side, many saw Prop 8 as a free speech issue: ’Don’t force me to validate a lifestyle I disagree with. It is not the same as marriage.’ And many saw the Teacher’s Union contribution of $3 million against Prop 8, as a effort to insure that children would be taught to approve what most parents disapprove of.
More from the Dec. 15 Beliefnet interview:
Beliefnet: One controversial moment for you in the last election was your support for Proposition 8 in California. ... Just to clarify, do you support civil unions or domestic partnerships?
RW: I don’t know if I’d use the term there but I support full equal rights for everybody in America. I don’t believe we should have unequal rights depending on particular lifestyles so I fully support equal rights.
Clarification from Warren, to BeliefNet, append to original transcript 12/15:
I now see you asked about civil UNIONS - and I responded by talking about civil RIGHTS. Sorry. They are two different issues. No American should ever be discriminated against because of their beliefs. Period. But a civil union is not a civil right. Nowhere in the constitution can you find the "right" to claim that any loving relationship identical to marriage. It’s just not there.
Dateline interview with Ann Curry, Dec. 19, 2008:
Responding to question about how he reconciles his stance on Prop 8 to the pain he caused to gay people in California:
"Because if that hadn’t passed the pain that it would have caused to far millions more I think would be more severe."
Asked whether his views on homosexuality would change if it was discovered it was biological:
"I’ve had many gay friends tell me, ’Why, Rick, why shouldn’t I have multiple sexual partners. It’s the natural thing to do.’ Well, just because it seems natural doesn’t mean it’s best for you or society. I’m naturally inclined to have sex with every beautiful woman I see, but that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. And why should I rein in my natural impulses? And you say, ’Well, because I have natural impulses toward the same sex, I shouldn’t have to rein them in.’ Well, I disagree. I think that’s part of maturity. I think that’s part of delayed gratification. I think that’s part of character."
Saddleback Church video address, Dec. 23, 2008:
A lot of you have written to me this week and said, Rick, how are you going to respond to all these false accusations and attacks, outright lies and hateful slander and really a lot of hate speech? It’s really what I would call Christ-o-phobia, people who are afraid of any Christian. Well, you know how I am going to respond. You already know the answer. Because we are going to respond the same way that we have responded to every single unfair attack over 30 years. We have no intention of changing. And that is we return good for evil. We return love for hate. We overcome evil with good.
FAQ on Saddleback website for prospective members, which was deleted from the site amidst the inauguration controversy:
Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church - we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives.
Oct. 23, 2008 video statement by Warren on Saddleback site:
We support Proposition 8, and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage you need to support Proposition 8. ... We should not let two percent of the population determine, to change the definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5000 years. This is not just a Christian issue. This is a humanitarian, human issue.
New Republic blog posting by Alan Wolfe, Aug. 14, 2008:
We once appeared on a panel together along with Harvard’s Peter Gomes at the Aspen Ideas Festival. When it came time for questions, a woman stood up, proclaimed her Judaism, and asked Warren if she was going to burn in hell. He paused before responding--and then answered her question the only way it could be answered. Yes, he said to audible gasps.
Hannity and Colmes, Dec. 4, 2008:
Sean Hannity: Can you talk to rogue dictators? Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust, wants to wipe Israel off the map, is seeking nuclear weapons.
Rick Warren: Yes.
SH: I think we need to take him out.
RW: Yes.
SH: Am I advocating something dark, evil or something righteous?
RW: Well, actually, the Bible says that evil cannot be negotiated with. It has to just be stopped. And I believe...
SH: By force?
RW: Well, if necessary. In fact, that is the legitimate role of government. The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers. Not good-doers. Evildoers.
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